Question: Can we call this enlightenment?
Karl Renz: No, this is… No. This is not even realization. This is the realization that That what one is – is ever realized. It’s more like… You cannot name it. It’s a non-event. Every event before, whatever oneness, whatever experience of deep insight of enlightenment, when that what is awareness… when matter and antimatter merge, and the light is there – even that… as I said, for fifteen years I was walking as that nothing, as light.
But there was still the heart-knot. Because I was defining myself as that light. So very subtle ownership – my light. And in that split second ownership dropped out. It was even the physical dropping out of existence – being prior to Existence. And then you…
But you still are in that world, but you are not of it. As the world is of you. But this is not oneness. As there is no one who defines himself in anything. This is was simply there, in every given moment. In every given moment it was there. And simply by giving the attention to the outside, to that dream, not aware of that.
But in that instant the awareness totally turned around to that what is awareness. And then there is no out-going or in-going. As you are simply that what is. But not by any definition.
So, that the absolutely not knowing what you are – is absolute knowledge. And everything is included in that. In that emptiness. And only that emptiness of that what is heart, the totally emptiness of any idea or definition can contain the fullness of that what is the realization of that what is heart.
That’s why the buddhists call so much attention to that emptiness, to go to that heart of emptiness. As you become that what is emptiness. And when you are that what is emptiness, it calls the outburst into that everything, into that fullness. And reaching the extreme emptiness, by being that emptiness – you are out to the fullness. And there is no contradiction in anything.
So, the whole totally koan of me is breaking down, in that instance.