Bengali Mataji

ABOUT ANANDAMAYI MA, from memories of Swami Mangalananda

In 1929, a National Congress of Philosophers was held in Dhaka. Many of the participants in this gathering had heard the tales of the young Bengali Mataji and came to see her. They were told that she was virtually uneducated and very simple. The assembled group plied her with many complicated philosophical questions from the scriptures. To their amazement, Ma, sitting serenely and radiantly before them, answered every one of their queries without a moment’s hesitation. The depth and profundity of her replies so impressed them, that in the end they folded their hands and told her, “We have studied dry scriptures. But, we now see before us, a living embodiment of all that is contained in our holy books of wisdom.”

Whoever claims to be a jnany, watch out

Question: But in case of a sage, in case of a jnany, he also lives in the world. So at times he is in that state where the world exists or not – doesn’t really matter for him. But the moment he starts interacting the world, as you said, hell might be starting even for a sage.

Karl Renz: That’s why I say – there is no way out. Even a jnany has to interact. So hell doesn’t stop. But what can stop is like that tendency of avoidance can stop. That is called a jnany. Only the tendency stops and not by trying to stop it. It stops when it stops. And in case of a jnany it stops before the body dies. Because in the moment the body dies and all of that, for sure all the tendencies go. And in the case of a jnany or saint it stops before. That’s all. So they worn out. The tendencies worn out. And then you call it a jnany. Because then there is no tendency of avoidance, and that is you call peaceful.

Or even the tendency of the tendency to avoid stops. So even there can be a tendency of avoidance but there is no tendency to stop the tendency. That’s more the case.

Question: So avoidance of… trying to avoid the unpleasantness. So natural thing.

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Me. My reality. My chair.

Karl Renz: That’s a definition of Reality – it cannot be sometimes and sometimes not. Is it? The same as this presence.

Question: The idea of a chair is something.

Karl Renz: It’s temporary.

Question: The idea of a chair?

Karl Renz:  Yeah. If no one would have told you that there is a chair, you would not even know a chair. You would not call it a chair. It’s a hearsay. If you would not know the sun, you would not even know. If there would be no word for it, you would not know it, you would not even see it. It’s all conditioned. Who told you – this is a hand? If you would not know this is your body, you… If your mother would not have told you when you are three years old – “this is your body”, this would not be even your body. It’s hearsay. This “mine”, this “me”. It’s just a conditioning. And will be gone one day.

And who needs evidence anyway? Question. Me. My reality. My chair. I can feel it. My body. So the question is Who am I? And who needs evidence that he exists? Who doubts, who needs always confirmation that he exists? Me. Me. Me.

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That nonsense is quite not so bad

Karl Renz: I don’t mind to talk. By that you are just can be quiet – it’s fine. So everyone has this experience by sitting down and wanting to be quiet, and everything is quiet. May not work so well. So but talking you to death works most often. For many, not for everyone.

Question: So if I have a question and ask. You could say what is a nonsense.

Karl Renz: No, I could not. I never know what I answer. It’s always like a unique thing. There is no standard.

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Real happiness

Anandamayi Ma: Happiness that depends on anything outside of you, be it a wife, a child, money, fame, friends cannot last. But if you find happiness in God who is everywhere, all pervading, who is your own self, that is real happiness.

The fresh breath all the time

Question: In a way you are a shit-cleaner, right?

Karl Renz: No, I am just here to open your back door.

Question: Yoga again.

Karl Renz: Yeah, this is yoga, this is pure yoga. Because keep your asshole open. But not only there, here too. In and out. You have two ears, that there is one ear here and one out, one in, one out. Don’t be a collector of shit.

Otherwise you present, that is like a meeting. Everyone presenting the collecting of the shit from yesterday, what happened. Shit happened, yesterday. Shit, shit, shit, shit. And then comparing your shit with their shit. My shit is better then your shit. A competition of shit. Shit competition. I have golden shit. You still have silver shit. My shit is pure. I have purified shit. You have dirty shit.

Yeah, listen to when people talking of their whatever. “My childhood was a very shitty childhood. No, my parents loved me. Shit. I cannot complain. Shit.” Yeah, it’s fun to have a shit factory. And when this shit factory goes, you don’t hang on to it. Because who wants to hang on on shit. Shit came, shit goes. It calls food body. Just digesting, digesting. And then what comes out of it? Worms are happy producing another shit. Even big models and body-builders, all – shit, shit, shit. Fantastic.

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Only God or Self exists

Question: So we can see there is no quality in what we are.

Karl Renz: No, there is only quality. There is no quantity. There is a dream of quantity. But in Reality is only quality. Only God or Self exists. So God is what is. And that Reality is realizing itself in all possibilities. So even the form is quality. But not one form is better than the other. So there is only Self showing itself in infinite forms. An infinite absolute presences. But there is no difference in quality. So it shows itself in differences but it doesn’t make a difference. So yes and no.

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No creation, no destruction

Karl Renz: It’s dumb to wake up. It’s very dumb. Stupid. But it’s an accident. It’s not by intention. So you are stupid not by intention. You are just stupid to wake up. And if the I aware, awakeness, then comes I – I am, dumber. Dumb, dumber.  And then having the body is the dumbest. So identified with awareness is dumb. Identified with spirit is dumber. And identifying yourself with a body is the dumbest. So it starts dumb, gets dumber, and the dumbest is now – being a person. So what to do.

So God must be very dumb, dumber and dumbest. Because now God sitting there, identified with being Spanish and a body. It’s double dummy dumb. Having a nationality. God with a nationality. That’s the dumbest ever. Being German, imagine. Wow. But we can take it. We really try to be Germans, not too mind. I think we all get old enough, that we get used to it. When we get really used to it, we die. Then it’s done.

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What I am saying is very simple

Nisargadatta Maharaj: Who you are? If you don’t know it, then get lost. What I am saying is very simple. Since death is inevitable, why not do as the sages say and see if it works? Why not listen to them and see if they are right? Before death comes it is necessary to follow a sage or a guru. If this body and this sense of I am are going to vanish, why not use them while you have them? It’s all going to vanish. Your waking, sleep and knowledge are going to vanish. You know it! Why not find out who you really are while you have them?

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Life living

Question: There is also no karma.

Karl Renz: There is karma but not yours. It’s a cosmic karma. It’s like the karma of consciousness. This moment and the next moment is the karma of consciousness. The action and the reaction in nature are not two. Consciousness is reacting to itself as a karmic consciousness. Infinitely incarnating, incarnating, incarnating in the next moment.

And the last moment disappears in the potential, and the next moment gets created out of the same whatever – call it consciousness, call it Life. So the karmic Life. Life has the absolute karma. It cannot get out of it. It has to realize itself. Life has to live itself. Life living – that is karma of Life. It cannot stop it. But there is no personal karma. Never was. So there is karma but it’s not yours. So why do you care?