Karl Renz: Ok. So where was I? Alcohol. Because with alcohol you got alcoholistic. It’s called alco-holy. Because when you drink enough – you feel holy. It’s about forgiveness. Because when you are drunk, you forgive everything to yourself, and everyone.
Question: It’s the big forgetness, and the lots of memory which is not the same.
Karl Renz: Yeah, I wish you did, forgetfulness. Forget-fullness. Or I would say – don’t forget fullness.
Karl Renz: But this is a joy. This is a joy that you cannot choose. The choicelessness of being. Things happen in spite of your liking it or not. And you have to enjoy yourself in spite liking it or not. This is a joy that everything already happened. And there is no way of changing anything. So the nature of peace and joy is not different. That why in India they call it Sat Chit Ananda. Three names for the Self. The Self, Chit means knowledge, and Ananda is happiness or joy. But they are not belonged together. So the Self doesn’t need to know itself to be happy.
Question: So it’s not an emotion?
Karl Renz: No.
Question: This is my question.
Karl Renz: Yeah, emotions come. It’s motion. It’s movement. It’s something. It’s an imaginary body chemical reaction, you can say. But that’s not joy. Joy is in spite of events. In spite of the chemical reaction in your brain. In spite of your kid does what you want or something. Or the world is as you like it. The joy, which needs an environment, is a depending one. And it’s not worth talking about.
Question: You make all these extraordinary statements about yourself. What makes you say those things? What do you mean by saying that you are beyond space and time?
Nisargadatta Maharaj: You ask and the answer comes. I watch myself – I watch the answer and see no contradiction. It is clear to me that I am telling you the truth. It is all very simple. Only you must trust me that I mean what I say, that I am quite serious. As I told you already, my Guru showed me my true nature and the true nature of the world. Having realized that I am one with, and yet beyond the world, I became free from all desire and fear. I did not reason out that I should be free – I found myself free unexpectedly, without the least effort.
ABOUT ANANDAMAYI MA, from memories of Swami Mangalananda
In 1929, a National Congress of Philosophers was held in Dhaka. Many of the participants in this gathering had heard the tales of the young Bengali Mataji and came to see her. They were told that she was virtually uneducated and very simple. The assembled group plied her with many complicated philosophical questions from the scriptures. To their amazement, Ma, sitting serenely and radiantly before them, answered every one of their queries without a moment’s hesitation. The depth and profundity of her replies so impressed them, that in the end they folded their hands and told her, “We have studied dry scriptures. But, we now see before us, a living embodiment of all that is contained in our holy books of wisdom.”
Question: But in case of a sage, in case of a jnany, he also lives in the world. So at times he is in that state where the world exists or not – doesn’t really matter for him. But the moment he starts interacting the world, as you said, hell might be starting even for a sage.
Karl Renz: That’s why I say – there is no way out. Even a jnany has to interact. So hell doesn’t stop. But what can stop is like that tendency of avoidance can stop. That is called a jnany. Only the tendency stops and not by trying to stop it. It stops when it stops. And in case of a jnany it stops before the body dies. Because in the moment the body dies and all of that, for sure all the tendencies go. And in the case of a jnany or saint it stops before. That’s all. So they worn out. The tendencies worn out. And then you call it a jnany. Because then there is no tendency of avoidance, and that is you call peaceful.
Or even the tendency of the tendency to avoid stops. So even there can be a tendency of avoidance but there is no tendency to stop the tendency. That’s more the case.
Question: So avoidance of… trying to avoid the unpleasantness. So natural thing.
Karl Renz: That’s a definition of Reality – it cannot be sometimes and sometimes not. Is it? The same as this presence.
Question: The idea of a chair is something.
Karl Renz: It’s temporary.
Question: The idea of a chair?
Karl Renz: Yeah. If no one would have told you that there is a chair, you would not even know a chair. You would not call it a chair. It’s a hearsay. If you would not know the sun, you would not even know. If there would be no word for it, you would not know it, you would not even see it. It’s all conditioned. Who told you – this is a hand? If you would not know this is your body, you… If your mother would not have told you when you are three years old – “this is your body”, this would not be even your body. It’s hearsay. This “mine”, this “me”. It’s just a conditioning. And will be gone one day.
And who needs evidence anyway? Question. Me. My reality. My chair. I can feel it. My body. So the question is Who am I? And who needs evidence that he exists? Who doubts, who needs always confirmation that he exists? Me. Me. Me.
Karl Renz: I don’t mind to talk. By that you are just can be quiet – it’s fine. So everyone has this experience by sitting down and wanting to be quiet, and everything is quiet. May not work so well. So but talking you to death works most often. For many, not for everyone.
Question: So if I have a question and ask. You could say what is a nonsense.
Karl Renz: No, I could not. I never know what I answer. It’s always like a unique thing. There is no standard.
Anandamayi Ma: Happiness that depends on anything outside of you, be it a wife, a child, money, fame, friends cannot last. But if you find happiness in God who is everywhere, all pervading, who is your own self, that is real happiness.
Question: In a way you are a shit-cleaner, right?
Karl Renz: No, I am just here to open your back door.
Question: Yoga again.
Karl Renz: Yeah, this is yoga, this is pure yoga. Because keep your asshole open. But not only there, here too. In and out. You have two ears, that there is one ear here and one out, one in, one out. Don’t be a collector of shit.
Otherwise you present, that is like a meeting. Everyone presenting the collecting of the shit from yesterday, what happened. Shit happened, yesterday. Shit, shit, shit, shit. And then comparing your shit with their shit. My shit is better then your shit. A competition of shit. Shit competition. I have golden shit. You still have silver shit. My shit is pure. I have purified shit. You have dirty shit.
Yeah, listen to when people talking of their whatever. “My childhood was a very shitty childhood. No, my parents loved me. Shit. I cannot complain. Shit.” Yeah, it’s fun to have a shit factory. And when this shit factory goes, you don’t hang on to it. Because who wants to hang on on shit. Shit came, shit goes. It calls food body. Just digesting, digesting. And then what comes out of it? Worms are happy producing another shit. Even big models and body-builders, all – shit, shit, shit. Fantastic.
Question: So we can see there is no quality in what we are.
Karl Renz: No, there is only quality. There is no quantity. There is a dream of quantity. But in Reality is only quality. Only God or Self exists. So God is what is. And that Reality is realizing itself in all possibilities. So even the form is quality. But not one form is better than the other. So there is only Self showing itself in infinite forms. An infinite absolute presences. But there is no difference in quality. So it shows itself in differences but it doesn’t make a difference. So yes and no.
