Question: The thing I was trying to get from you – which I haven’t succeeded in getting yet is – was it, a one-time event? I know there’s no such thing as time, but time does seem to continue.
Karl Renz: No, no. This – to be That to which nothing ever happens – was never different. In That, there is no coming and going. So it’s here, now or never.
Question: Yeah, but in that, in what you say…
Karl Renz: No, it’s simply a pointer. It is never-never! That’s a split second of being never-never. Not even ever. It’s never-never. So what you are is never-never? Are you ever? No. You are never-never.
Question: In the non-event, in the experience, does the world disappear?
Karl Renz: It’s not a non-experience. It’s the experience that, what is an experiencer and whatever you can experience, you are not. It’s an absolute experience of being absolutely independent of whatever you experience, even absolutely independent of the experiencer. It’s an absolute experience of That which you may call “freedom”, but having no idea of what is and what is not freedom. It’s simply being That which can never be touched by the senses or by anything you can sense of objective life.
So you are as That which is ever in no sense. All the senses are there, but you are never in any sense – never was and never will be. And for That which was never in any sense, which was never born and may die, in that moment, the idea of “death” is dying. That’s all. You see what you are is never-never. But this is nothing new or old; this is never-never. So that anything can be there – any concept, any belief system, any image – you have to be there first as That which is never-never. That which is never-never is the substratum that you cannot reduce anymore. At the moment of total reduction, you reduce yourself to the max. So, in the moment, you become emptiness and fullness together. As you are in the emptiness of ideas, the Heart is so empty in itself that only then can it contain the fullness of absolute existence. So you go back to the maximum reduction to become the maximum of absolute existence.